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Religion & livssyn ⇒ The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
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The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
PROOF OF DIVINE AUTHORSHIP, OR SOPHISTICATED CPU`S DURING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE HEBREW BIBLE:
Sidenote:
¨Due to the extreme numerologic perfection; one must ascertain this as a true miracle. I am stunned there is no Christian university for the sole study of the Bible innumerology. The scientific thesis drawing from Ivan`s conclusions must be that:
1. The Hebrew language, and alphabet of the Old Testament was constructed by a computer for the purpose of the creation of the Bible either long before the alleged completion in 400BC, or between then and AD. The greek alphabet of the new testament, and the greek language was constructed by a computer.
2. Or it is God`s inspired work leaving us completely numb.
3. Or both. Perhaps only the Old Testament, and hebrew was super-computered while the greeks, and NT jews were lucky, and did an amazing job copying the pattern.
The genealogy-prophecy of Jesus is another question-mark. Not only does it contain a prophecy as we discovered in the Jesus chapter. It`s contradictionary! Luke, and Matthew give different accounts to Jesus geneology! Now: The Bible authors were more perfectionist with this book than perhaps any other written text ever written. I believe the numerological code is the reason to why they differ!
We know Torah scrolls existed before Jesus. But we know little more than that. When the modern books of the Tanakh were compiled is under much debate. Some scholars give Israeli history little historical value saying f.i Solomon never existed. Yet the discoveries of Ron Wyatt, and much un-official, and hushed down evidence testify to all the Bible being true. Why should it be a lie? If one really delves into the past one must at some point ask: How were the giants/Nephilim defeated? Did the jews, and Solomon have super-tech? Who were the Canaanites, and the Aramaians? How were the giants of America defeated? More on this in my next book.
Still: I go for thesis 3. I believe the Bible/Tanakh to be an Egyptian conspiracy of the creation of a new people. The Egyptian Gods/God/Elohim led the Israelites on, and they won over pharaoh. I believe it is God`s hand at work: mightily creating a chosen people, and the only true religion. I believe Hebrew historical records to be mostly accurate down to Abraham where it goes into myth-history. (mostly Egyptian)
Anyways. Here we go.
--------------------------------------------------
Dr. Ivan Panin's Letter to the New York Sun
Sir: In to-day's Sun Mr. W.R.L. calls for a "champion of orthodoxy" to "step into the arena of the Sun;' and give him some "facts." Here are some facts:
The first 17 verses of the New Testament contain the genealogy of the Christ. It consists of two main parts: Verses 1-11 cover the period from Abraham, the father of the chosen people, to the Captivity, when they ceased as an independent people. Verses 12-17 cover the period from the Captivity to the promised Deliverer, the Christ.
Let us examine the first part of this genealogy.
Its vocabulary has 49 words, or 7 x 7. This number is itself seven sevens, and the sum of its factors is 2 sevens. Of these 49 words 28, or 4 sevens, begin with a vowel; and 21, or 3 sevens, begin with a consonant.
Again: these 49 words of the vocabulary have 266 letters, or 7 x 2 x 19; this number is itself 38 sevens, and the sum of its factors is 28, or 4 sevens (Feature 6, while the sum of its figures is 14, or 2 sevens. Of these 266 letters, moreover, 140, or 20 sevens, are vowels, and 126, or 18 sevens, are consonants
That is to say: Just as the number of words in the vocabulary is a multiple of seven, so is the number of its letters a multiple of seven; just as the sum of the factors of the number of the words is a multiple of seven, so is the sum of the factors of the number of their letters a multiple of seven. And just as the number of words is divided between vowel words and consonant words by sevens, so is their number of letters divided between vowels and consonants by sevens.
Again: Of these 49 words 35, or 5 sevens, occur more than once in the passage; and 14, or 2 sevens, occur but once (Feature 9); seven occur in more than one form, and 42, or 6 sevens, occur in only one form (Feature 10). And among the parts of speech the 49 words are thus divided: 42, or 6 sevens, are nouns, seven are not nouns (Feature 12). Of the nouns 35 or 5 sevens, are Proper names, seven are common nouns (Feature 12). Of the Proper names 28 are male ancestors of the Christ.
Moreover, these 49 words are distributed alphabetically thus: Words under A-E are 21 in number, or 3 sevens; Z-K 14, or 2 sevens; M-X also 14. No other groups of sevens stopping at the end of a letter are made by these 49 words, the groups of sevens stop with these letters and no others. But the letters A, E, Z, K, M, X, are letters 1, 5, 6, 10, 12, 22, of the Greek alphabet, and the sum of these numbers (called their Place Values) is 56, or 8 sevens.
This enumeration of the numeric phenomena of these 11 verses does not begin to be exhaustive, but enough has been shown to make it clear that this part of the genealogy is constructed on an elaborate design of sevens.
Let us not turn to the genealogy as a whole. I will not weary your readers with recounting all the numeric phenomena thereof: pages alone would exhaust them. I will point out only one feature: The New Testament is written in Greek. The Greeks had no separate symbols for expressing numbers, corresponding to our Arabic figures, but used instead the letters of their alphabet: just as the Hebrews, in whose language the Old Testament is written, made use for the same purpose of theirs. Accordingly, the 24 Greek letters stand for the following numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800. Every Greek word is thus a sum in arithmetic obtained by adding the numbers for which its letters stand, or their numeric values. Now the vocabulary to the entire genealogy has 72 words. If we write its numeric value over each of these 72 words, and add them, we get for their sum 42,364, or 6,052 sevens, distributed into the following alphabetical groups only: A-B, have 9,821, or 1,403 sevens: G-D, 1,904, or 272 sevens; 3,703, or 529 sevens; TH-R, 19,264, or 2,752 sevens; A-X 7,672, or 1,096 sevens. But the numeric value of the 10 letters used for making these groups is 931, or 7 x 7 x 19, a multiple not only of seven but of seven sevens.
Let Mr. W.R.L. try to write some 300 words intelligently like this genealogy, and reproduce some numeric phenomena of like designs. If he does it in 6 months, he will indeed do a wonder. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in one month.
2. The second part of this chapter, verses 18-25, relates the birth of Christ. It consists of 161 words, or 23 sevens; occurring in 105 forms, or 15 sevens, with a vocabulary of 77 words or 11 sevens. Joseph is spoken to here by the angel. Accordingly, of the 77 words the angel uses 28, or 4 sevens; of the 105 forms he uses 35, or 5 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 52,605, or 7,515 sevens; of the forms, 65,429, or 9,347 sevens.
This enumeration only begins as it were to barely scratch the surface of the numerics of this passage. But what is specially noteworthy here is the fact that the angel's speech has also a scheme of sevens making it a kind of ring within a ring, a wheel within a wheel. If Mr. L. can write a similar passage of 161 words with the same scheme of sevens alone (though there are several others here) in some three years, he would accomplish a still greater wonder. Let us assume Matthew accomplished this feat in only 6 months.
3. The second chapter of Matthew tells of the childhood of the Christ. Its vocabulary has 161 words, or 23 sevens, with 896 letters, or 128 sevens, and 238 forms, or 34 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 123,529, or 17,647 sevens; of the forms, 166,985, or 23,855 sevens; and so on through pages of enumeration. This chapter has at least four logical divisions, and each division shows alone the same phenomena found in the chapter as a whole. Thus the first six verses have a vocabulary of 56 words, or 8 sevens, etc. There are some speeches here: Herod speaks, the Magi speak, the angel speaks. But so pronounced are the numeric phenomena here, that though there are as it were numerous rings within rings, and wheels within wheels, each is perfect in itself, though forming all the while only part of the rest.
If Mr. L. can write a chapter like this as naturally as Matthew writes, but containing in some 500 words so many intertwined yet harmonious numeric features, in say the rest of his days - whatever his age now, or the one to which he is to attain: if he thus accomplish it at all, it will indeed be marvel of marvels. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in only 3 years.
4. There is not, however, a single paragraph of the scores in Matthew that is not constructed in exactly the same manner. Only with each additional paragraph the difficulty of constructing it increases not in arithmetical but in geometrical progression. For he contrives to write numeric relations to what goes before and after. Thus in his last chapter he contrives to use just 7 words not used by him before. It would thus be easy to show that Mr. L. would require some centuries to write a book like Matthew's. How long it took Matthew the writer does not know. But how he contrived to do it between the Crucifixion, A.D.30 (and his Gospel could not have been written earlier), and the destruction of Jerusalem, A.D.70 (and the Gospel could not have been written later), let Mr. L. and his like-minded explain.
Anyhow Matthew did it, and we thus have a miracle - an unheard-of literary, mathematical artist, unequaled, hardly even conceivable. This is the first fact for Mr. L. to contemplate.
A second fact is yet more important: In his very first section, the genealogy discussed above, the words found nowhere else in the New Testament, occur 42 times, 7 x 6; and have 126 letters, 7 x 6 x 3, each number a multiple not only of seven, but of 6 sevens, to name only two of the many numeric features of these words. But how did Matthew know, when designing this scheme for these words (whose sole characteristic is that they are found nowhere else in the New Testament) that they would not be found in the other 26 books? that they would not be used by the other 7 New Testament writers? Unless we assume the impossible hypothesis that he had an agreement with them to that effect, he must have had the rest of the New Testament before him when he wrote his book. The Gospel of Matthew, then, was written last.
5. It so happens, however, that the Gospel of Mark shows the very same phenomena. Thus the very passage called so triumphantly in today's Sun a "forgery," the Last Twelve Verses of Mark, presents among some sixty features of sevens the following phenomena: It has 175 words, or 95 sevens; a vocabulary of 98 words, or 2 sevens of sevens with 553 letters, or 79 sevens; 133 forms, or 19 sevens, and so on to the minutest detail.
Mark, then, is another miracle, another unparalleled literary genius. And in the same way in which it was shown that Matthew wrote last it is also shown that Mark, too, wrote last. Thus to take an example from this very passage: It has just one word found nowhere else in the New Testament, 'deadly'. This fact is signaled by no less than seven features of sevens thus: Its numeric value is 581, or 83 sevens, with the sum of its figures 14, or 2 sevens, of which the letters 3, 5, 7, from both the BEGINNING and END of the word have 490, or 7 x 7 x 5 x 2: a multiple of seven sevens, with the sum of its factors 21, or 3 sevens. In the vocabulary it is preceded by 42 words, 7 x 6; in the passage itself by 126 words, or 7 x 6 x 3, both numbers multiples not only of seven, but of 6 sevens. We have thus established before us this third fact for Mr. L. to contemplate: Matthew surely wrote after Mark, and Mark just as surely wrote after Matthew.
6. It happens, however, to be a fourth fact, that Luke presents the same phenomena as Matthew and Mark; and so does John, and James, and Peter, and Jude, and Paul. And we have thus no longer two great unheard-of mathematical literati, but eight of them and each wrote after the other.
7. And not only this: As Luke and Peter wrote each 2 books, John 5, and Paul 14, it can in the same way be shown that each of the 27 New Testament books was written last. In fact, not a page of the over 500 in Westcott and Hort's Greek edition (which the writer has used throughout) but it can be demonstrated thus to have been written last.
The phenomena are there and there is no human way of explaining them. Eight men cannot each write last, 97 books, some 500 pages cannot each be written first. But once assume that one Mind directed the whole, and the problem is solved simply enough; but this is Verbal Inspiration - of every jot and tittle of the New Testament.
There remains only to be added that by precisely the same kind of evidence the Hebrew Old Testament is proved to be equally inspired. Thus the very first verse of Genesis has seven words, 28 letters, or 4 sevens: to name only two out of the dozens of numeric features of this one verse of only seven words. - N.Y. Sun, Nov. 21, 1899 - Corrected.
To this letter several replies appeared in the Sun, but not a single answer. For in only three ways can it be refuted.
(a) By showing that the facts are not as here given.
(b) By showing that it is possible for 8 men to write each after the other 7; for 27 books, for some 500 pages to be each in its turn written last.
(c) By showing that even if the facts be true, the arithmetic faultless, and the collocation of the numerics honest, it does not follow that mere men could not have written this without Inspiration from above.
Accordingly, as many as nine noted rationalists (of whom Drs. Lyman Abbot and Charles W. Eliot are still living) [at that time] were respectfully but publicly invited to refute the writer. One was not "interested" in the writer's "arithmetical" doings; two "regretted" that they "had no time" to give heed thereto. Another "did not mean to be unkind," but ... The rest were silent. For the special benefit of these the writer printed the original data with numerous details, enabling them in the easiest manner to verify every statement made by him, if they wished. And to the best of his ability he has for years seen to it that no scholar whom surely these things specially concern remain in ignorance of the facts here recounted and of like cogency.
A notable exception to the above is a lawyer of standing [now also dead], whose books on Law are deemed as of authority. He had intelligence enough and candor withal to confess that the case for the Bible as made out by the writer is impregnable, that the Bible is thus proved to be an "absolutely unique book." This much the case itself exhorts from the but too well equipped writer on - EVIDENCE; and accordingly he henceforth reads the writer's Numerics with intense appreciation. And then, fresh from this confession, he betakes himself once more to the circulation of his anti-Christian books in the writing of which he joys to spend his leisure hours.
NUMERIC VALUE
Note that in the above example using the English alphabet the first ten letters have the same place values and numeric values. However, when we get to the eleventh letter K, the numeric value begins to increase by ten with each additional letter until we reach the value of 100. From that point in the alphabet forward the numeric value of each letter will increase by 100.
Every single word in Hebrew contains a series of letters with individual numeric values. For example, the word B'raisheet, "beginning," is expressed in Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew as [HEBREW LETTERS]. If you add up the total value of the individual letters in B'raisheet the numeric value of the word is 913. Since each word has a numeric value, we can add up the value of each of the words in a biblical verse to determine the numerical value of the sentence.
The Astonishing Pattern of SEVENS in Genesis 1:1
Let us begin by examining the first verse of the Bible to explore Panin's discovery.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1)
[Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew]
Ivan Panin carefully examined the Hebrew text of Genesis 1:1 and discovered an incredible phenomenon of multiples of 7 that could not be explained by chance. Genesis 1:1 was composed of 7 Hebrew words containing a 28 letters. Throughout the Bible, the number 7 appears repeatedly as a symbol of divine perfection—the 7 days of creation. God rested on the 7th day, the 7 churches, the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, etc. In total, Panin discovered 30 separate codes involving the number 7 in this first verse of the Bible.
A Listing of the Phenomenal Features of Sevens Found in Genesis 1:
1. The number of Hebrew words.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
2. The number of letters equals 28 (28-4= 7) . . . . . Seven
3. The first three Hebrew words translated
“In the beginning God created” contain
14 letters (14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
4. The last four Hebrew words "the heavens
and the earth" have 14 letters (14-2=7) . . . . . . . .Seven
5. The fourth and fifth words have 7 letters . . . . . Seven
6. The sixth and seventh words have 7 letters . . . . .Seven
7. The three key words: God, heaven, and earth have 14 letters (14 / 2 = 7). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
8. The number of letters in the four remaining s
words is also 14 (14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
9. The middle word is the shortest with 2 letters.
However, in combination with the word to the
Right or left it totals 7 letters . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
10. The numeric value of the first, middle,
(and last letters is 133 (133 / 19 = 7) . . . . . . . .. . . Seven
11. The numeric value of the first and last letters
of all seven words is 1,393 (1,393 - 199 = 7) Seven
When professors on the mathematics faculty at Harvard University were presented with this biblical phenomenon, they naturally attempted to disprove its significance as a proof of divine authorship. However, after valiant efforts these professors were unable to duplicate this incredible mathematical phenomenon.
The Harvard scientists used the English language and artificially assigned numeric values to the English alphabet. They had a potential vocabulary of over 400,000 available English words to choose from to construct a sentence about any topic they chose.
Compare this to the limitations of word choices in the biblical Hebrew language, which has only forty-five hundred available word choices that the writers of the Old Testament could use. Despite their advanced mathematical abilities and access to computers the mathematicians were unable to come close to incorporating 30 mathematical multiples of 7 as found in the Hebrew words of Genesis 1:1.
If anyone doubts the difficulty of producing a passage following such an intricate pattern of sevens, I challenge you to try it yourself. I have tried, and it is impossible to complete a paragraph on any topic and remain true to the system of interlocking sevens. I doubt that anyone could complete a paragraph of over one hundred and fifty words following such a pattern of sevens, as found in Genesis 1:1 and Matthew, chapter 1, even if they were to devote several years to the effort.
The problem is that with the addition of every I fit single word and sentence the magnitude of the challenge to integrate the new phrase into the existing pattern grows geometrically. Each word and sentence must fit into the pattern existing within me preceding sentences.
In light of this virtual impossibility we need to remember that the writers of the Bible were forty-four mostly common men who wrote their individual texts separated from one another over a period of sixteen centuries. How could these ordinary men contribute to this hidden pattern without consultation when most of them never met their fellow authors? The only logical explanation is that God directed their minds through supernatural INSPIRATION TO WRITE His precise inspired words.
The number "seven" permeates the totality of Scripture because the number speaks of God's divine perfection and perfect order. The actual number 7 appears 287 times in the Old Testament (287 - 41 = 7) while the word seventh occurs 98 times (98 - 14 = 7). The word seven-fold appearst seven times. In addition, the word seventy is used 56 times • (56 / 8 = 7).
Panin discovered literally thousands of such mathematical patterns underlying all of the books of the Old Testament before his death in 1942. I refer the interested reader to Panin's book. The Inspiration of the Scriptures Scientifically Demonstrated,
which discusses these phenomena extensively. Panin and others have examined other Hebrew literature and have attempted to find such mathematical patterns, but they are not found anywhere outside the Bible.
Matthew 1:1-17—Evidence of Divine Authorship of the New Testament
Panin also examined the New Testament to discover whether or not the pattern continued. There were four hundred years of silence between the completion of the Old Testament ft around 396 B.C., and the writing of the New Testament following the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, when God inspired the New Testament authors, including Matthew, to begin writing the Gospels, He again manifested His signature on the pages of Scripture by creating a marvelously complex pattern of sevens beneath the text of Matthew's Gospel.
The first section in Matthew's account consists of seventeen verses from Matthew 1:1 to 1:17 that describe in•detail one particular subject, the genealogy of Jesus Christ. This seventeen-verse text contains 72 Greek Vocabulary words. A Vocabulary word is a particular word different from any other word that was used in a passage. In other words, a Greek word that appears 6 times in the passage would only be counted as 1 Vocabulary word. Obviously, the number of Vocabulary words will differ from the number of total words appearing in the passage. The same system of numeric and place values for letters exists in the Greek language used in the New Testament as we found in Hebrew of the Old Testament.
Naturally, the religious skeptics did not abandon their atheism in response to these incredible discoveries by Ivan Panin that revealed a staggering pattern of complexity hidden beneath the text of Scripture. After many skeptics had dismissed his research, Ivan Panin issued a public challenge through one of the major newspapers of the day, the New York Sun, in a letter to the editor on November 20, 1899, offering his detractors an opportunity to prove his research wrong if they could.
Panin issued his public challenge to some of the greatest atheist scholars of the day. "I herewith respectfully invite any or all of the following to prove that my facts are not facts: namely Messrs. Lyman Abbott, Washington Gladden, Herber Newton, Minot J. Savage, Presidents Eliot of Harvard, White of Cornell, and Harper of the University of Chicago, Professor J. Henry Thayer of Harvard, and Dr. Briggs, and any other prominent higher critic so called. They may associate with themselves, if they choose, all the contributors to the ninth edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, who wrote its articles on Biblical subjects, together with a dozen mathematicians of the caliber of Professor Simon Newcomb.
The heavier the calibre of either scholar or mathematician, the more satisfactory to ft me. They will find that my facts are facts. And since they are facts, I am ready to take them to any three prominent lawyers, or, better still, to any judge of the superior or supreme court, and abide by his decision as to whether the conclusion is not necessary that Inspiration alone can account for the facts, if they are facts. All I should ask would be that the judge treat the case as he would any other case that comes before him."
Despite his public challenge in the New York Sun, not one of these prominent men attempted to refute Mr. Panin's undeniable facts or to deal with the unavoidable conclusion that the evidence produced by Panin proved that the Bible was truly inspired by a divine intelligence. The critics could not refute these facts. The only thing they could do was to ignore them.
Were Mr. Panin's research and calculations wrong? If so, where? If they were correct, and if they are, then the evidence exists for all to see that God did truly inspire the words of Scripture. One of Panin's last challenges consisted of this argument. He wrote to his ''detractors: "Lastly, my argument can also be refuted by showing that even though my facts be true, my arithmetic faultless, and my collocation of numerics honest, that men could have written thus without inspiration from above."
However, any honest attempt to create a paragraph on any subject that will contain this astonishing pattern of mathematical features within the surface text will utterly fail. I doubt that even a modern Cray super-computer could produce a passage containing the "wheels within wheels" pattern of sevens as revealed in Genesis 1:1 or Matthew 1:1-25.
To date, no one has succeeded in duplicating the phenomenon produced by the biblical writers in ancient times.
What was Panin’s own view of the Scriptures after a lifetime of diligent study? He wrote the following statement in one of his essays after warning of the limitations of wisdom found in secular philosophy. "Not so, however, with The Book. For it tells of One who spake as men never spake, who was the true bread of life, that which cometh down from the heavens, of which if a man eat he shall never hunger." Ivan Panin's conclusion of the matter was the following challlenge.
Sidenote:
¨Due to the extreme numerologic perfection; one must ascertain this as a true miracle. I am stunned there is no Christian university for the sole study of the Bible innumerology. The scientific thesis drawing from Ivan`s conclusions must be that:
1. The Hebrew language, and alphabet of the Old Testament was constructed by a computer for the purpose of the creation of the Bible either long before the alleged completion in 400BC, or between then and AD. The greek alphabet of the new testament, and the greek language was constructed by a computer.
2. Or it is God`s inspired work leaving us completely numb.
3. Or both. Perhaps only the Old Testament, and hebrew was super-computered while the greeks, and NT jews were lucky, and did an amazing job copying the pattern.
The genealogy-prophecy of Jesus is another question-mark. Not only does it contain a prophecy as we discovered in the Jesus chapter. It`s contradictionary! Luke, and Matthew give different accounts to Jesus geneology! Now: The Bible authors were more perfectionist with this book than perhaps any other written text ever written. I believe the numerological code is the reason to why they differ!
We know Torah scrolls existed before Jesus. But we know little more than that. When the modern books of the Tanakh were compiled is under much debate. Some scholars give Israeli history little historical value saying f.i Solomon never existed. Yet the discoveries of Ron Wyatt, and much un-official, and hushed down evidence testify to all the Bible being true. Why should it be a lie? If one really delves into the past one must at some point ask: How were the giants/Nephilim defeated? Did the jews, and Solomon have super-tech? Who were the Canaanites, and the Aramaians? How were the giants of America defeated? More on this in my next book.
Still: I go for thesis 3. I believe the Bible/Tanakh to be an Egyptian conspiracy of the creation of a new people. The Egyptian Gods/God/Elohim led the Israelites on, and they won over pharaoh. I believe it is God`s hand at work: mightily creating a chosen people, and the only true religion. I believe Hebrew historical records to be mostly accurate down to Abraham where it goes into myth-history. (mostly Egyptian)
Anyways. Here we go.
--------------------------------------------------
Dr. Ivan Panin's Letter to the New York Sun
Sir: In to-day's Sun Mr. W.R.L. calls for a "champion of orthodoxy" to "step into the arena of the Sun;' and give him some "facts." Here are some facts:
The first 17 verses of the New Testament contain the genealogy of the Christ. It consists of two main parts: Verses 1-11 cover the period from Abraham, the father of the chosen people, to the Captivity, when they ceased as an independent people. Verses 12-17 cover the period from the Captivity to the promised Deliverer, the Christ.
Let us examine the first part of this genealogy.
Its vocabulary has 49 words, or 7 x 7. This number is itself seven sevens, and the sum of its factors is 2 sevens. Of these 49 words 28, or 4 sevens, begin with a vowel; and 21, or 3 sevens, begin with a consonant.
Again: these 49 words of the vocabulary have 266 letters, or 7 x 2 x 19; this number is itself 38 sevens, and the sum of its factors is 28, or 4 sevens (Feature 6, while the sum of its figures is 14, or 2 sevens. Of these 266 letters, moreover, 140, or 20 sevens, are vowels, and 126, or 18 sevens, are consonants
That is to say: Just as the number of words in the vocabulary is a multiple of seven, so is the number of its letters a multiple of seven; just as the sum of the factors of the number of the words is a multiple of seven, so is the sum of the factors of the number of their letters a multiple of seven. And just as the number of words is divided between vowel words and consonant words by sevens, so is their number of letters divided between vowels and consonants by sevens.
Again: Of these 49 words 35, or 5 sevens, occur more than once in the passage; and 14, or 2 sevens, occur but once (Feature 9); seven occur in more than one form, and 42, or 6 sevens, occur in only one form (Feature 10). And among the parts of speech the 49 words are thus divided: 42, or 6 sevens, are nouns, seven are not nouns (Feature 12). Of the nouns 35 or 5 sevens, are Proper names, seven are common nouns (Feature 12). Of the Proper names 28 are male ancestors of the Christ.
Moreover, these 49 words are distributed alphabetically thus: Words under A-E are 21 in number, or 3 sevens; Z-K 14, or 2 sevens; M-X also 14. No other groups of sevens stopping at the end of a letter are made by these 49 words, the groups of sevens stop with these letters and no others. But the letters A, E, Z, K, M, X, are letters 1, 5, 6, 10, 12, 22, of the Greek alphabet, and the sum of these numbers (called their Place Values) is 56, or 8 sevens.
This enumeration of the numeric phenomena of these 11 verses does not begin to be exhaustive, but enough has been shown to make it clear that this part of the genealogy is constructed on an elaborate design of sevens.
Let us not turn to the genealogy as a whole. I will not weary your readers with recounting all the numeric phenomena thereof: pages alone would exhaust them. I will point out only one feature: The New Testament is written in Greek. The Greeks had no separate symbols for expressing numbers, corresponding to our Arabic figures, but used instead the letters of their alphabet: just as the Hebrews, in whose language the Old Testament is written, made use for the same purpose of theirs. Accordingly, the 24 Greek letters stand for the following numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800. Every Greek word is thus a sum in arithmetic obtained by adding the numbers for which its letters stand, or their numeric values. Now the vocabulary to the entire genealogy has 72 words. If we write its numeric value over each of these 72 words, and add them, we get for their sum 42,364, or 6,052 sevens, distributed into the following alphabetical groups only: A-B, have 9,821, or 1,403 sevens: G-D, 1,904, or 272 sevens; 3,703, or 529 sevens; TH-R, 19,264, or 2,752 sevens; A-X 7,672, or 1,096 sevens. But the numeric value of the 10 letters used for making these groups is 931, or 7 x 7 x 19, a multiple not only of seven but of seven sevens.
Let Mr. W.R.L. try to write some 300 words intelligently like this genealogy, and reproduce some numeric phenomena of like designs. If he does it in 6 months, he will indeed do a wonder. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in one month.
2. The second part of this chapter, verses 18-25, relates the birth of Christ. It consists of 161 words, or 23 sevens; occurring in 105 forms, or 15 sevens, with a vocabulary of 77 words or 11 sevens. Joseph is spoken to here by the angel. Accordingly, of the 77 words the angel uses 28, or 4 sevens; of the 105 forms he uses 35, or 5 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 52,605, or 7,515 sevens; of the forms, 65,429, or 9,347 sevens.
This enumeration only begins as it were to barely scratch the surface of the numerics of this passage. But what is specially noteworthy here is the fact that the angel's speech has also a scheme of sevens making it a kind of ring within a ring, a wheel within a wheel. If Mr. L. can write a similar passage of 161 words with the same scheme of sevens alone (though there are several others here) in some three years, he would accomplish a still greater wonder. Let us assume Matthew accomplished this feat in only 6 months.
3. The second chapter of Matthew tells of the childhood of the Christ. Its vocabulary has 161 words, or 23 sevens, with 896 letters, or 128 sevens, and 238 forms, or 34 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 123,529, or 17,647 sevens; of the forms, 166,985, or 23,855 sevens; and so on through pages of enumeration. This chapter has at least four logical divisions, and each division shows alone the same phenomena found in the chapter as a whole. Thus the first six verses have a vocabulary of 56 words, or 8 sevens, etc. There are some speeches here: Herod speaks, the Magi speak, the angel speaks. But so pronounced are the numeric phenomena here, that though there are as it were numerous rings within rings, and wheels within wheels, each is perfect in itself, though forming all the while only part of the rest.
If Mr. L. can write a chapter like this as naturally as Matthew writes, but containing in some 500 words so many intertwined yet harmonious numeric features, in say the rest of his days - whatever his age now, or the one to which he is to attain: if he thus accomplish it at all, it will indeed be marvel of marvels. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in only 3 years.
4. There is not, however, a single paragraph of the scores in Matthew that is not constructed in exactly the same manner. Only with each additional paragraph the difficulty of constructing it increases not in arithmetical but in geometrical progression. For he contrives to write numeric relations to what goes before and after. Thus in his last chapter he contrives to use just 7 words not used by him before. It would thus be easy to show that Mr. L. would require some centuries to write a book like Matthew's. How long it took Matthew the writer does not know. But how he contrived to do it between the Crucifixion, A.D.30 (and his Gospel could not have been written earlier), and the destruction of Jerusalem, A.D.70 (and the Gospel could not have been written later), let Mr. L. and his like-minded explain.
Anyhow Matthew did it, and we thus have a miracle - an unheard-of literary, mathematical artist, unequaled, hardly even conceivable. This is the first fact for Mr. L. to contemplate.
A second fact is yet more important: In his very first section, the genealogy discussed above, the words found nowhere else in the New Testament, occur 42 times, 7 x 6; and have 126 letters, 7 x 6 x 3, each number a multiple not only of seven, but of 6 sevens, to name only two of the many numeric features of these words. But how did Matthew know, when designing this scheme for these words (whose sole characteristic is that they are found nowhere else in the New Testament) that they would not be found in the other 26 books? that they would not be used by the other 7 New Testament writers? Unless we assume the impossible hypothesis that he had an agreement with them to that effect, he must have had the rest of the New Testament before him when he wrote his book. The Gospel of Matthew, then, was written last.
5. It so happens, however, that the Gospel of Mark shows the very same phenomena. Thus the very passage called so triumphantly in today's Sun a "forgery," the Last Twelve Verses of Mark, presents among some sixty features of sevens the following phenomena: It has 175 words, or 95 sevens; a vocabulary of 98 words, or 2 sevens of sevens with 553 letters, or 79 sevens; 133 forms, or 19 sevens, and so on to the minutest detail.
Mark, then, is another miracle, another unparalleled literary genius. And in the same way in which it was shown that Matthew wrote last it is also shown that Mark, too, wrote last. Thus to take an example from this very passage: It has just one word found nowhere else in the New Testament, 'deadly'. This fact is signaled by no less than seven features of sevens thus: Its numeric value is 581, or 83 sevens, with the sum of its figures 14, or 2 sevens, of which the letters 3, 5, 7, from both the BEGINNING and END of the word have 490, or 7 x 7 x 5 x 2: a multiple of seven sevens, with the sum of its factors 21, or 3 sevens. In the vocabulary it is preceded by 42 words, 7 x 6; in the passage itself by 126 words, or 7 x 6 x 3, both numbers multiples not only of seven, but of 6 sevens. We have thus established before us this third fact for Mr. L. to contemplate: Matthew surely wrote after Mark, and Mark just as surely wrote after Matthew.
6. It happens, however, to be a fourth fact, that Luke presents the same phenomena as Matthew and Mark; and so does John, and James, and Peter, and Jude, and Paul. And we have thus no longer two great unheard-of mathematical literati, but eight of them and each wrote after the other.
7. And not only this: As Luke and Peter wrote each 2 books, John 5, and Paul 14, it can in the same way be shown that each of the 27 New Testament books was written last. In fact, not a page of the over 500 in Westcott and Hort's Greek edition (which the writer has used throughout) but it can be demonstrated thus to have been written last.
The phenomena are there and there is no human way of explaining them. Eight men cannot each write last, 97 books, some 500 pages cannot each be written first. But once assume that one Mind directed the whole, and the problem is solved simply enough; but this is Verbal Inspiration - of every jot and tittle of the New Testament.
There remains only to be added that by precisely the same kind of evidence the Hebrew Old Testament is proved to be equally inspired. Thus the very first verse of Genesis has seven words, 28 letters, or 4 sevens: to name only two out of the dozens of numeric features of this one verse of only seven words. - N.Y. Sun, Nov. 21, 1899 - Corrected.
To this letter several replies appeared in the Sun, but not a single answer. For in only three ways can it be refuted.
(a) By showing that the facts are not as here given.
(b) By showing that it is possible for 8 men to write each after the other 7; for 27 books, for some 500 pages to be each in its turn written last.
(c) By showing that even if the facts be true, the arithmetic faultless, and the collocation of the numerics honest, it does not follow that mere men could not have written this without Inspiration from above.
Accordingly, as many as nine noted rationalists (of whom Drs. Lyman Abbot and Charles W. Eliot are still living) [at that time] were respectfully but publicly invited to refute the writer. One was not "interested" in the writer's "arithmetical" doings; two "regretted" that they "had no time" to give heed thereto. Another "did not mean to be unkind," but ... The rest were silent. For the special benefit of these the writer printed the original data with numerous details, enabling them in the easiest manner to verify every statement made by him, if they wished. And to the best of his ability he has for years seen to it that no scholar whom surely these things specially concern remain in ignorance of the facts here recounted and of like cogency.
A notable exception to the above is a lawyer of standing [now also dead], whose books on Law are deemed as of authority. He had intelligence enough and candor withal to confess that the case for the Bible as made out by the writer is impregnable, that the Bible is thus proved to be an "absolutely unique book." This much the case itself exhorts from the but too well equipped writer on - EVIDENCE; and accordingly he henceforth reads the writer's Numerics with intense appreciation. And then, fresh from this confession, he betakes himself once more to the circulation of his anti-Christian books in the writing of which he joys to spend his leisure hours.
NUMERIC VALUE
Note that in the above example using the English alphabet the first ten letters have the same place values and numeric values. However, when we get to the eleventh letter K, the numeric value begins to increase by ten with each additional letter until we reach the value of 100. From that point in the alphabet forward the numeric value of each letter will increase by 100.
Every single word in Hebrew contains a series of letters with individual numeric values. For example, the word B'raisheet, "beginning," is expressed in Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew as [HEBREW LETTERS]. If you add up the total value of the individual letters in B'raisheet the numeric value of the word is 913. Since each word has a numeric value, we can add up the value of each of the words in a biblical verse to determine the numerical value of the sentence.
The Astonishing Pattern of SEVENS in Genesis 1:1
Let us begin by examining the first verse of the Bible to explore Panin's discovery.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1)
[Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew]
Ivan Panin carefully examined the Hebrew text of Genesis 1:1 and discovered an incredible phenomenon of multiples of 7 that could not be explained by chance. Genesis 1:1 was composed of 7 Hebrew words containing a 28 letters. Throughout the Bible, the number 7 appears repeatedly as a symbol of divine perfection—the 7 days of creation. God rested on the 7th day, the 7 churches, the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, etc. In total, Panin discovered 30 separate codes involving the number 7 in this first verse of the Bible.
A Listing of the Phenomenal Features of Sevens Found in Genesis 1:
1. The number of Hebrew words.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
2. The number of letters equals 28 (28-4= 7) . . . . . Seven
3. The first three Hebrew words translated
“In the beginning God created” contain
14 letters (14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
4. The last four Hebrew words "the heavens
and the earth" have 14 letters (14-2=7) . . . . . . . .Seven
5. The fourth and fifth words have 7 letters . . . . . Seven
6. The sixth and seventh words have 7 letters . . . . .Seven
7. The three key words: God, heaven, and earth have 14 letters (14 / 2 = 7). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
8. The number of letters in the four remaining s
words is also 14 (14 / 2 = 7) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seven
9. The middle word is the shortest with 2 letters.
However, in combination with the word to the
Right or left it totals 7 letters . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Seven
10. The numeric value of the first, middle,
(and last letters is 133 (133 / 19 = 7) . . . . . . . .. . . Seven
11. The numeric value of the first and last letters
of all seven words is 1,393 (1,393 - 199 = 7) Seven
When professors on the mathematics faculty at Harvard University were presented with this biblical phenomenon, they naturally attempted to disprove its significance as a proof of divine authorship. However, after valiant efforts these professors were unable to duplicate this incredible mathematical phenomenon.
The Harvard scientists used the English language and artificially assigned numeric values to the English alphabet. They had a potential vocabulary of over 400,000 available English words to choose from to construct a sentence about any topic they chose.
Compare this to the limitations of word choices in the biblical Hebrew language, which has only forty-five hundred available word choices that the writers of the Old Testament could use. Despite their advanced mathematical abilities and access to computers the mathematicians were unable to come close to incorporating 30 mathematical multiples of 7 as found in the Hebrew words of Genesis 1:1.
If anyone doubts the difficulty of producing a passage following such an intricate pattern of sevens, I challenge you to try it yourself. I have tried, and it is impossible to complete a paragraph on any topic and remain true to the system of interlocking sevens. I doubt that anyone could complete a paragraph of over one hundred and fifty words following such a pattern of sevens, as found in Genesis 1:1 and Matthew, chapter 1, even if they were to devote several years to the effort.
The problem is that with the addition of every I fit single word and sentence the magnitude of the challenge to integrate the new phrase into the existing pattern grows geometrically. Each word and sentence must fit into the pattern existing within me preceding sentences.
In light of this virtual impossibility we need to remember that the writers of the Bible were forty-four mostly common men who wrote their individual texts separated from one another over a period of sixteen centuries. How could these ordinary men contribute to this hidden pattern without consultation when most of them never met their fellow authors? The only logical explanation is that God directed their minds through supernatural INSPIRATION TO WRITE His precise inspired words.
The number "seven" permeates the totality of Scripture because the number speaks of God's divine perfection and perfect order. The actual number 7 appears 287 times in the Old Testament (287 - 41 = 7) while the word seventh occurs 98 times (98 - 14 = 7). The word seven-fold appearst seven times. In addition, the word seventy is used 56 times • (56 / 8 = 7).
Panin discovered literally thousands of such mathematical patterns underlying all of the books of the Old Testament before his death in 1942. I refer the interested reader to Panin's book. The Inspiration of the Scriptures Scientifically Demonstrated,
which discusses these phenomena extensively. Panin and others have examined other Hebrew literature and have attempted to find such mathematical patterns, but they are not found anywhere outside the Bible.
Matthew 1:1-17—Evidence of Divine Authorship of the New Testament
Panin also examined the New Testament to discover whether or not the pattern continued. There were four hundred years of silence between the completion of the Old Testament ft around 396 B.C., and the writing of the New Testament following the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, when God inspired the New Testament authors, including Matthew, to begin writing the Gospels, He again manifested His signature on the pages of Scripture by creating a marvelously complex pattern of sevens beneath the text of Matthew's Gospel.
The first section in Matthew's account consists of seventeen verses from Matthew 1:1 to 1:17 that describe in•detail one particular subject, the genealogy of Jesus Christ. This seventeen-verse text contains 72 Greek Vocabulary words. A Vocabulary word is a particular word different from any other word that was used in a passage. In other words, a Greek word that appears 6 times in the passage would only be counted as 1 Vocabulary word. Obviously, the number of Vocabulary words will differ from the number of total words appearing in the passage. The same system of numeric and place values for letters exists in the Greek language used in the New Testament as we found in Hebrew of the Old Testament.
Naturally, the religious skeptics did not abandon their atheism in response to these incredible discoveries by Ivan Panin that revealed a staggering pattern of complexity hidden beneath the text of Scripture. After many skeptics had dismissed his research, Ivan Panin issued a public challenge through one of the major newspapers of the day, the New York Sun, in a letter to the editor on November 20, 1899, offering his detractors an opportunity to prove his research wrong if they could.
Panin issued his public challenge to some of the greatest atheist scholars of the day. "I herewith respectfully invite any or all of the following to prove that my facts are not facts: namely Messrs. Lyman Abbott, Washington Gladden, Herber Newton, Minot J. Savage, Presidents Eliot of Harvard, White of Cornell, and Harper of the University of Chicago, Professor J. Henry Thayer of Harvard, and Dr. Briggs, and any other prominent higher critic so called. They may associate with themselves, if they choose, all the contributors to the ninth edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, who wrote its articles on Biblical subjects, together with a dozen mathematicians of the caliber of Professor Simon Newcomb.
The heavier the calibre of either scholar or mathematician, the more satisfactory to ft me. They will find that my facts are facts. And since they are facts, I am ready to take them to any three prominent lawyers, or, better still, to any judge of the superior or supreme court, and abide by his decision as to whether the conclusion is not necessary that Inspiration alone can account for the facts, if they are facts. All I should ask would be that the judge treat the case as he would any other case that comes before him."
Despite his public challenge in the New York Sun, not one of these prominent men attempted to refute Mr. Panin's undeniable facts or to deal with the unavoidable conclusion that the evidence produced by Panin proved that the Bible was truly inspired by a divine intelligence. The critics could not refute these facts. The only thing they could do was to ignore them.
Were Mr. Panin's research and calculations wrong? If so, where? If they were correct, and if they are, then the evidence exists for all to see that God did truly inspire the words of Scripture. One of Panin's last challenges consisted of this argument. He wrote to his ''detractors: "Lastly, my argument can also be refuted by showing that even though my facts be true, my arithmetic faultless, and my collocation of numerics honest, that men could have written thus without inspiration from above."
However, any honest attempt to create a paragraph on any subject that will contain this astonishing pattern of mathematical features within the surface text will utterly fail. I doubt that even a modern Cray super-computer could produce a passage containing the "wheels within wheels" pattern of sevens as revealed in Genesis 1:1 or Matthew 1:1-25.
To date, no one has succeeded in duplicating the phenomenon produced by the biblical writers in ancient times.
What was Panin’s own view of the Scriptures after a lifetime of diligent study? He wrote the following statement in one of his essays after warning of the limitations of wisdom found in secular philosophy. "Not so, however, with The Book. For it tells of One who spake as men never spake, who was the true bread of life, that which cometh down from the heavens, of which if a man eat he shall never hunger." Ivan Panin's conclusion of the matter was the following challlenge.
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Mitt syn på religion er som kjent alt annet enn positivt, hvilket innebærer at de respektive 'hellige skrifter' er å anse som et middelaldersk 'etterslep' hvis fortsatt grep om befolkningen i den såkaldte opplyste delen av verden, for meg syntes fullstendig ubegripelig.
Når det er sagt, kommer vel begrepet "perfekt" an på øyet som ser, og hvordan en eventuelt vinkler det:..
For selv om verdensbildet som gjengis tar avleggs til et helt nytt nivå, samtidig som de har legitimert et overveldende flertall av kriger og menneskelig ondskap i årtusner, kan en ikke benekte det geniale ved valget & sammensetningen av innhold ihht å få 'grep' om befolkninger. Jeg mener.. Når disse verdensbildene som er hinsides all fornuft, og forlengst satt til side av vitenskapen fremdeles driver folk til de samme krigene, maktovergrepene & forfølgelsene de har trigget i 2000 år, er det jo ingen tvil om at bibelen, så vel som de andre av sitt slag er perfekte til nettopp dette.
Positivt er det ikke, men like fult perfeksjon for de med en helt annen agenda..
Når det er sagt, kommer vel begrepet "perfekt" an på øyet som ser, og hvordan en eventuelt vinkler det:..
For selv om verdensbildet som gjengis tar avleggs til et helt nytt nivå, samtidig som de har legitimert et overveldende flertall av kriger og menneskelig ondskap i årtusner, kan en ikke benekte det geniale ved valget & sammensetningen av innhold ihht å få 'grep' om befolkninger. Jeg mener.. Når disse verdensbildene som er hinsides all fornuft, og forlengst satt til side av vitenskapen fremdeles driver folk til de samme krigene, maktovergrepene & forfølgelsene de har trigget i 2000 år, er det jo ingen tvil om at bibelen, så vel som de andre av sitt slag er perfekte til nettopp dette.
Positivt er det ikke, men like fult perfeksjon for de med en helt annen agenda..
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Use your own mind. - Always!
~ Gry ~
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
![rofl rofl](./images/smilies/36_11_6.gif)
![rofl rofl](./images/smilies/36_11_6.gif)
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Bibelen er jo ikke overlevert i den formen den er nå, det er jo ganske mange tekster som ikke er tatt med. Så om man tar med disse faller jo hele numerologien i grus
Hvorvidt humanismen er inspirert av kristendommen er nokså uklart. Flere bibelforskere søkte seg vekk fra dette og heller tilbake til antikken, altså for det meste de hellenske filosofene. En annen ting er at alle ideene om å være snill og grei mot sin neste osv. like gjerne kan tilskrives Buddha
https://snl.no/humanisme
![Laughing :D](./images/smilies/mozilla_laughing.png)
Hvorvidt humanismen er inspirert av kristendommen er nokså uklart. Flere bibelforskere søkte seg vekk fra dette og heller tilbake til antikken, altså for det meste de hellenske filosofene. En annen ting er at alle ideene om å være snill og grei mot sin neste osv. like gjerne kan tilskrives Buddha
![Laughing :D](./images/smilies/mozilla_laughing.png)
https://snl.no/humanisme
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“When you're a god, you don't have to have reasons."-Terry Pratchett, Mort
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Numerologien faller ikke i grus på grunn av det Trond. Bøkene er jo ikke med!
Humanismen kalles gjerne den judeo-kristne-gresk-romerske arv, og det er den vi har bygget vesten på; ikke buddha, så der tar du feil.
Men ja. Hvorfor ikke?
Humanismen kalles gjerne den judeo-kristne-gresk-romerske arv, og det er den vi har bygget vesten på; ikke buddha, så der tar du feil.
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Men hvis Bibelen nå er direkte fra guds munn så og si burde jo de andre bøkene vært tatt med? Menneskene skal jo ikke tukle med guds ord eller? Det var jo på kirkemøtet i Nikea i år 325 som bestemte dagens vestlige utgave av bibelen.
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
"Gud's Ord" - tja, jeg VET at det er en energi med mange navn, hvorav Gud, Allah, "Tor og Odin", med mange flere som faktisk eksisterer.
Og at de som har skrevet de "innlegg" som bibelen består av har vært inspirert av det "Åndelige", ja, det tror jeg også.
Men som flere av de andre her kommenterer, så er det mye annet som står i den samlingen av bøker, som nok ikke er så "gude-inspirert".
Sjamanismen - som er den eldste trosretning ( mer enn 50 000 år gammel, og man har indikasjoner på at den kan være så gammel som 100 000 år gammel), har mye av det samme grunnlaget, som man finner i bibelen.
Det samme finner vi i gamle egyptiske skrifter, og mange andre steder.
Moral - altså "vær snill" mot folk rundt deg, bygger på at om man er ok med folk, så er de ok tilbake.
Men så kommer "moralens voktere", de som liksom skal passe på at andre oppfører seg etter "moralen", da begynner ting å skli ut fra den åndelige verden .
Vi får en mengde lover og regler, ( deriblant de ti "moral-"bud), som nå plutselig skal være retningslinjer for hvordan folk skal leve.
Og vipps; vi har oppfunnet hykleriet.
Det er det værste med den siden av saken, man har plutselig 2 masker, en man viser verden, og den man bruker når ingen andre ser.
Vi har alle fått utlevert en samvittighet fra fødselen av, på hvordan vi skal behandle andre.
Men så er det slik at folk gjør valg i livet, og noen av disse valgene gjør at samvittigheten forsvinner.
Men summa summarum :
Siden bibelen MANGLER mange av bøkene som engang var en del av den, I TILLEGG til at man har redigert og fikset tekstene ( av makthensyn - ref kirkemøtet i Nikea )- så er ikke den boken noe annet for meg enn en redigert utgave av skrifter som er tegnet ned over mange år.
Og siden den er redigert, kan vi ikke lengre stole på innholdet.
A
Og at de som har skrevet de "innlegg" som bibelen består av har vært inspirert av det "Åndelige", ja, det tror jeg også.
Men som flere av de andre her kommenterer, så er det mye annet som står i den samlingen av bøker, som nok ikke er så "gude-inspirert".
Sjamanismen - som er den eldste trosretning ( mer enn 50 000 år gammel, og man har indikasjoner på at den kan være så gammel som 100 000 år gammel), har mye av det samme grunnlaget, som man finner i bibelen.
Det samme finner vi i gamle egyptiske skrifter, og mange andre steder.
Moral - altså "vær snill" mot folk rundt deg, bygger på at om man er ok med folk, så er de ok tilbake.
Men så kommer "moralens voktere", de som liksom skal passe på at andre oppfører seg etter "moralen", da begynner ting å skli ut fra den åndelige verden .
Vi får en mengde lover og regler, ( deriblant de ti "moral-"bud), som nå plutselig skal være retningslinjer for hvordan folk skal leve.
Og vipps; vi har oppfunnet hykleriet.
Det er det værste med den siden av saken, man har plutselig 2 masker, en man viser verden, og den man bruker når ingen andre ser.
Vi har alle fått utlevert en samvittighet fra fødselen av, på hvordan vi skal behandle andre.
Men så er det slik at folk gjør valg i livet, og noen av disse valgene gjør at samvittigheten forsvinner.
Men summa summarum :
Siden bibelen MANGLER mange av bøkene som engang var en del av den, I TILLEGG til at man har redigert og fikset tekstene ( av makthensyn - ref kirkemøtet i Nikea )- så er ikke den boken noe annet for meg enn en redigert utgave av skrifter som er tegnet ned over mange år.
Og siden den er redigert, kan vi ikke lengre stole på innholdet.
A
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Synes det er fint å høre på hvordan denne bønnen er sunget
n-i7P0yMu_8
Noen teorier rundt bibelens NT og Jesus korsfestelse
u333RYRE3ZQ
n-i7P0yMu_8
Noen teorier rundt bibelens NT og Jesus korsfestelse
u333RYRE3ZQ
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Jeg er helt enig med Asbjørn og støtter hans syn på dette her. Mitt syn er at Jesus kom ikke til jorden for å starte en religion og for å bli tilbedt. Han kom til jorden for å lære oss hvordan vi skulle leve. Han kom for å lære oss kjærlighet og det å være gode mot hverandre. I en tid som var preget av kriger, ondskap blant mennesker og en brutalitet av en annen verden. Ikke for å starte en religion som desverre er full av ting du ikke kan gjøre, for da skjer det og det og du kommer til å leve evig i "skjærsilden". Dette er bare bevis på det menneskelige ego, og ønsket om makt og å kunne kontrollere og styre folk. Mye av det som står i bibelen tror jeg på. Men det er også mye "bullshit" som en så avansert sjel som Jesus var/er, aldri ville sagt. Vi må også huske på at bibelen ble til fra hendelser for over 2000 år siden. Mye av det som står i bibelen er tatt helt ut av kontekst og fremstilt i en helt annen mening enn hva som var Jesus'. Og det er det som skurrer når det gjelder kristendommen som religion. Er vel mennesker som gjorde dette til en religion med visse regler og masse skremselspropaganda. Desverre.
Selv så er jeg spiritualist som livssyn. Men jeg har fortsatt beholdt de kristne skikkene vi har med jul, påske osv. Og jeg mener man fint kan tro på Jesus og Gud osv uten å tilhøre kristendommen som religion. Og jeg er også en stor tilhenger av Jesus, Jesus sin lære til menneskeheten og det Jesus gjorde på denne tiden. Men, mye av det som står i bibelen tar jeg med en stor klype salt. Her er det alt for mye menneskelig ego, og hiven etter makt og kontroll som rår. Og som Asbjørn er inne på, redigering av tekster og benektelse av enkelte skrifter. En av årsakene til at jeg gikk bort fra kristendommen som livssyn er pga nettopp dette. Og hvis man ser på hvordan den norske kirke og enkelte kristne organisasjoner behandler f.eks homofile så er det helt utrolig at det går an i 2018. Og en hel rekke andre ting. Mediumskap og healing er jo heller ikke særlig akseptert innen for den norske kirke. Utrolig nok så drev kirken med akkurat dette selv til rundt 1000 tallet, men da ble det plutselig bråstopp. Derav heksebrenningen som oppstod og som varte til langt ut i nyere tid.
Hva Islam gjelder som en er inne på tidligere får vi ta i en annen diskusjon. Det er en religion som aldri burde eksistert.
Selv så er jeg spiritualist som livssyn. Men jeg har fortsatt beholdt de kristne skikkene vi har med jul, påske osv. Og jeg mener man fint kan tro på Jesus og Gud osv uten å tilhøre kristendommen som religion. Og jeg er også en stor tilhenger av Jesus, Jesus sin lære til menneskeheten og det Jesus gjorde på denne tiden. Men, mye av det som står i bibelen tar jeg med en stor klype salt. Her er det alt for mye menneskelig ego, og hiven etter makt og kontroll som rår. Og som Asbjørn er inne på, redigering av tekster og benektelse av enkelte skrifter. En av årsakene til at jeg gikk bort fra kristendommen som livssyn er pga nettopp dette. Og hvis man ser på hvordan den norske kirke og enkelte kristne organisasjoner behandler f.eks homofile så er det helt utrolig at det går an i 2018. Og en hel rekke andre ting. Mediumskap og healing er jo heller ikke særlig akseptert innen for den norske kirke. Utrolig nok så drev kirken med akkurat dette selv til rundt 1000 tallet, men da ble det plutselig bråstopp. Derav heksebrenningen som oppstod og som varte til langt ut i nyere tid.
Hva Islam gjelder som en er inne på tidligere får vi ta i en annen diskusjon. Det er en religion som aldri burde eksistert.
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Aviator skrev:Hva Islam gjelder som en er inne på tidligere får vi ta i en annen diskusjon. Det er en religion som aldri burde eksistert.
Her kan det imidlertid ikke hjelpes for at jeg blir ganske spent på hva som ligger til grunn for den oppfatningen om at religionen Islam som sådan som kommer frem her.. Hvordan i himmelens navn kan en, som tilhenger av den ene trosretningen påberope seg et slags monopol på sannheten på bekostning av den andre, -som derav er å betrakte som et utyske som aldri skulle eksistert!?..
Nå snakker jeg overhodet ikke om all galskapen som ligger i hvordan disse religionene praktiseres, -med fundamentalisme som ytterpunkt. -Jeg snakker om religionen slik den er nedskrevet!
Jeg har nemmelig lest meg igjennom praktisk talt hele pakka hva islam angår, da jeg etter et terrorangrep fikk et behov for å vite hva det denne selvmordsbombingen hadde sitt utspring av besto av. På bakgrunn av alle ugjerninger som er gjort i kristendommens navn gjennom tiden, skred jeg til verket med det utgangspunkt at dette i bunn & grunn var samme greia; Folk som vred disse tekstene helt ut av proposjoner slik at de andte opp med en tolkning som berettiget hva det nå skulle være av kvalme som sto på agendaen..
Jeg ble hverken omvendt eller noe nærmere å 'kjøpe' det verdens-/virkelighetsbildet som gis i religionene, men når det er sagt, ble jeg faktisk slått ut av hvor mye mer islam har innenfor det rasjonelle! Her er det f.eks ikke gitt noe skyld for syndefallet, like så er kjønnene likestilt fra begynnelsen, der hvor kristendommen allerede ved skapelsen viser mannssjovenisme..
- Ei heller har Allah denne hevngjærrigheten som ligger til grunn for at den kristne Gud faktisk aldri har tilgitt noe som helst! -Han måtte imidlertid fixe dette her med at en el annen, som da ble Jesus, måtte ta straffen for oss!
Aller mest oppsiktsvekkende, er imidlertid at koranen gjør et nummer ut av at religionen og det som står skrevet i koranen bestandig skal tilpasses menneskeheten & vitenskapens fremskritt!
Islam er selvsagt i det store og hele utdatert fjas det oxo, men den har iallefall noe av sunn fornuft innkludert, og det har jeg vel strengt tatt tilgode å finne i den blekka denne delen av verden er gitt å følge (he he)
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Nå er egentlig Islam en helt annen debatt enn hva som diskuteres her. Men men, hvis det tolereres en avsporing fra det egentlige emnet i denne tråden så kan jeg godt gi mine synspunkter på Islam. Jeg har i utgangspunktet stor forståelse for de ulike verdensreligioner og mener at alle bør få tro på det dem vil. Jeg har min tro og andre har sin tro. Og jeg har ingen problemer med å akseptere at andre har et annet trossyn enn meg selv. Og slik burde det være i hele verden. Desverre så er det ikke slik. Jeg påberoper meg heller ingen rett til å sitte på sannheten og fasiten, selv om jeg har mine synspunkter. Islam er dog en religion jeg ser på som livsfarlig og som aldri burde eksistert.
Problemet mitt med Islam er at hele religionen er bygget opp rundt en person som levde hele sitt liv med å krige, drepe, plyndre, henrette, torturere andre mennesker, slaver, utukt med mindre årige for å nevne bare noe. Dette er blant mulismer det perfekt menneske, og det største forbilde blant muslimske menn. Koranen er også full av tekster som beordrer drap og forfulgelse av vantro og mennesker med en annen religion. Det er overhodet ingen likestilling mellom kjønnene i Islam, så hvor du har dette fra vet ikke jeg. Tvert imot er kvinner langt under mannen i rang. Dette kommer også tydelig frem i Koranen. Muhammed selv ga også ifølge koranen ved flere anledninger ordre om å voldta, steine og slå kvinner.
Dette er bare et kort referat. Etter mitt ståsted er dette hovedproblemet til alle konfliktene og problemene i de muslimske landene. Derfor blir det aldri fred, og det er fult av konflikter og kriger. Islam respekterer ikke andre religioner. Dem respekterer langt mindre seg selv og de ulike retningene innen Islam. Dem står enda fast i år 660 og kommer seg ikke videre så lenge dem er såpass hjernevasket av denne islamismen som er en ren kreftsvulst for menneskeheten slik jeg ser det. Jeg beklager sterk språkbruk og om jeg fornærmer noen, men dette kan du lese selv om du slår opp Koranen og alle skriftene som hører med (Sira og Hadith). En kjapt søk i de store avisene vitner om muslimer som dreper og henretter uskyldige mennesker. Både kvinner og barn. Ingen er desverre spart. Ikke engang andre muslimer innenfor ulike trosretninger i Islam. Forfølgelser og drap av kristne osv osv. Trist lesning, men det er desverre realiteten.
Til sammenligning med f.eks kristendommen og Buddhismen så var Jesus en person som aldri drepte noe annet menneske. Han helberedet derimot mennesker. Og han stod opp for de svake. Han beordret heller aldri vold eller forfulgelse av andre mennesker. En hendelse der en kvinne skulle steines for utroskap i ekteskapet. Da sa Jesus at den som er helt uten synd selv kan kaste den første steinen. Og ingen kastet. Buddha var også en person som aldri tok noen liv eller gjorde andre mennesker vondt, men levde sitt liv i harmoni og fred.
Dette er mitt personlige synspunkt på religionen Islam, og grunnen til at jeg tenker at denne religionen aldri burde eksistert. Mye av det du nevner om Islam stemmer ikke med hva som står i Koranen og dens andre skrifter (Sira og hadith), som igjen bekreftes av historien om denne "profeten" som man kan lese om i Koranen.
Problemet mitt med Islam er at hele religionen er bygget opp rundt en person som levde hele sitt liv med å krige, drepe, plyndre, henrette, torturere andre mennesker, slaver, utukt med mindre årige for å nevne bare noe. Dette er blant mulismer det perfekt menneske, og det største forbilde blant muslimske menn. Koranen er også full av tekster som beordrer drap og forfulgelse av vantro og mennesker med en annen religion. Det er overhodet ingen likestilling mellom kjønnene i Islam, så hvor du har dette fra vet ikke jeg. Tvert imot er kvinner langt under mannen i rang. Dette kommer også tydelig frem i Koranen. Muhammed selv ga også ifølge koranen ved flere anledninger ordre om å voldta, steine og slå kvinner.
Dette er bare et kort referat. Etter mitt ståsted er dette hovedproblemet til alle konfliktene og problemene i de muslimske landene. Derfor blir det aldri fred, og det er fult av konflikter og kriger. Islam respekterer ikke andre religioner. Dem respekterer langt mindre seg selv og de ulike retningene innen Islam. Dem står enda fast i år 660 og kommer seg ikke videre så lenge dem er såpass hjernevasket av denne islamismen som er en ren kreftsvulst for menneskeheten slik jeg ser det. Jeg beklager sterk språkbruk og om jeg fornærmer noen, men dette kan du lese selv om du slår opp Koranen og alle skriftene som hører med (Sira og Hadith). En kjapt søk i de store avisene vitner om muslimer som dreper og henretter uskyldige mennesker. Både kvinner og barn. Ingen er desverre spart. Ikke engang andre muslimer innenfor ulike trosretninger i Islam. Forfølgelser og drap av kristne osv osv. Trist lesning, men det er desverre realiteten.
Til sammenligning med f.eks kristendommen og Buddhismen så var Jesus en person som aldri drepte noe annet menneske. Han helberedet derimot mennesker. Og han stod opp for de svake. Han beordret heller aldri vold eller forfulgelse av andre mennesker. En hendelse der en kvinne skulle steines for utroskap i ekteskapet. Da sa Jesus at den som er helt uten synd selv kan kaste den første steinen. Og ingen kastet. Buddha var også en person som aldri tok noen liv eller gjorde andre mennesker vondt, men levde sitt liv i harmoni og fred.
Dette er mitt personlige synspunkt på religionen Islam, og grunnen til at jeg tenker at denne religionen aldri burde eksistert. Mye av det du nevner om Islam stemmer ikke med hva som står i Koranen og dens andre skrifter (Sira og hadith), som igjen bekreftes av historien om denne "profeten" som man kan lese om i Koranen.
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Men er det ikke smart å ikke bare støtte opp under sine egner meninger. Det fins da andre ting enn Jesus i kr:dommen. Det er jo også likestilling i Islam. De mener at kvinner og menn er født til ulike ting og det har dermed stor anseelse i Islam å være husmor å passe på huset. Islam er ingen fantastisk religion men folk må som du sa få tro hva de vil. Jeg kan jo sikkert tro på Harry Potter bøkene å drepe ut ifra noe som står der, men det er jo feil. Problemet med disse religionene er at det er så mange som manipulerer og vinkler informasjon. Det er få som tenker på at f:eks bibelen framstiller miljøet og samfunnet på den tiden. Vi har jo fornyet oss noe på 2000 år. Så når folk velger å følge eldgammel lov å ikke velger å tenke på religionen som mer objektivt blir det vanskelig.
Demokrati= Informasjon er der for å brukes
MAU
Demokrati= Informasjon er der for å brukes
MAU
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Det er mye riktig i det du skriver margogbein. Problemet når det gjelder Islam er at den er såpass tydelig når det kommer til både det ene og det andre. Med tekster som befaler muslimer til å forfølge og drepe vantro for å gi ett eksempel. I tillegg er Koranen "en perfekt bok uten feil". Og Muhammed som er profeten var også det perfekte mennesket. Sett med muslimers øyne. Og hvis man leser seg litt opp på hva Islam egentlig står for, og historien til Muhammed, så skjønner man hvorfor det aldri blir fred i de muslimske landene. Hvis man sammenligner Islam opp mot Kristendommen f.eks, så er det hvis man tar et overfladisk blikk visse likheter. Og man tror kanskje at disse religionene er ganske like. Men så snart man dukker litt dypere så ser man at disse to religionene er så forskjellig som det kan bli. Den ene promoterer vold og hat, samt full underkastelse til Allah og profeten, mens den andre promoterer kjærlighet. Likestilling i Islam har aldri eksistert. Og det finnes ikke et eneste muslimsk land hvor det er full likestilling. Man trenger ikke lese mer enn historien til profeten i Islam, så ser man hvilket kvinnesyn han hadde. Intoleransen ovenfor andre troende i Islam er et av de største utfordringene. Og dette står i Koranen, som er en perfekt bok som ikke kan forandres. Her ligger mye av problematikken og selve kreftsvulsten i Islam.
Bibelen i kristendommen har sine tekster osv man stiller store spørsmålstegn ved. Men selve profeten Jesus, som er "hovedpersonen" gjorde aldri noe annet menneske noe vondt, eller snakket ned om andre - i motsetning til Mohammed. Hadde Mohammed levd idag ville han vært det vi kaller for en krigsforbryter som stod bak groteske krigsforbrytelser og misbruk av barn for å nevne noe. Det blir litt som at vi idag hadde startet en religion rundt Adolf Hitler, og hans handlinger og filosofi. Dette er min personlige mening om Islam, og grunnen til at jeg mener at den aldri burde ha eksistert. Jeg er som sagt tidligere for full religionsfrihet og alle bør få ha sin tro. Når det er sagt, så respekterer jeg muslimer på alle måter. Men jeg støtter på ingen måte opp om Islam som religion som jeg mener er en av vår tids største utfordringer.
Så, har vi fornyet oss på 2000 år? Både ja og nei. Noe er selvfølgelig annerledes nå enn for 2000 år siden. Blant annet er analfabeter så å si ikke-eksisterende i den moderne verden. I vesten i allfall. Men volden og brutaliteten har desverre ikke forandret seg. Den er nok minst like brutal idag som for 2000 år siden. Eneste forskjellen idag kontra for 2000 år siden er at den idag foregår mer i det skjulte, og ikke så åpenlyst som den gangen.
Bibelen i kristendommen har sine tekster osv man stiller store spørsmålstegn ved. Men selve profeten Jesus, som er "hovedpersonen" gjorde aldri noe annet menneske noe vondt, eller snakket ned om andre - i motsetning til Mohammed. Hadde Mohammed levd idag ville han vært det vi kaller for en krigsforbryter som stod bak groteske krigsforbrytelser og misbruk av barn for å nevne noe. Det blir litt som at vi idag hadde startet en religion rundt Adolf Hitler, og hans handlinger og filosofi. Dette er min personlige mening om Islam, og grunnen til at jeg mener at den aldri burde ha eksistert. Jeg er som sagt tidligere for full religionsfrihet og alle bør få ha sin tro. Når det er sagt, så respekterer jeg muslimer på alle måter. Men jeg støtter på ingen måte opp om Islam som religion som jeg mener er en av vår tids største utfordringer.
Så, har vi fornyet oss på 2000 år? Både ja og nei. Noe er selvfølgelig annerledes nå enn for 2000 år siden. Blant annet er analfabeter så å si ikke-eksisterende i den moderne verden. I vesten i allfall. Men volden og brutaliteten har desverre ikke forandret seg. Den er nok minst like brutal idag som for 2000 år siden. Eneste forskjellen idag kontra for 2000 år siden er at den idag foregår mer i det skjulte, og ikke så åpenlyst som den gangen.
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Ja! Koranen og egentlig alle religionene er ikke noe jeg ville ha vært troende til. etikken i mange av de er bra. Koranen har jo egne tolkninger og loven som er Sharia. Det handler om mer tolkning i Islam enn det kanskje gjør i Kristendommen. Derfor er det lettere å overbevise folk til ekstremisme. På den måten er den veldig farlig. Kristendommen har jo gamle testamentet som ikke er så veldig fornøyelig den heller. Det er jo Abraham som nesten drepte sønnen Isak. Gud måtte jo drepe veldig mange for å få vekk de som ikke ville gjøre som han ville. Så gud i GT er en autoritær leder som antageligvis var som mange andre ledere på den tiden. Det er veldig mange som bruker GT også selv om folk for det meste har Jesus som grunntro.
Ja. volden er her i dag og, men som du sier så er den litt mer utspekulert og skjult. Veldig mye merkelig som skjer i diverse utspring av kristendommen og selvfølgelig Islamisme også som har rot i ISLAM. Vil si at uansett hvilken religion det er så er det alltid de svake som blir brukt for å gjøre den såkalte guds mening. Det er veldig lett å bruke folk som er langt nede.
Ja. volden er her i dag og, men som du sier så er den litt mer utspekulert og skjult. Veldig mye merkelig som skjer i diverse utspring av kristendommen og selvfølgelig Islamisme også som har rot i ISLAM. Vil si at uansett hvilken religion det er så er det alltid de svake som blir brukt for å gjøre den såkalte guds mening. Det er veldig lett å bruke folk som er langt nede.
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Re: The Holy Bible? The perfect book?
Denne må dere se ;-)
OlZxiFf67RI
OlZxiFf67RI
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“Mot er ikke fravær av frykt, men evnen til å gå videre selv om du er redd.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnA9OnrdIuI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnA9OnrdIuI
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